Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related

[Mastriani]

@Tom-Elliott

Mr. Elliot, you sir are a phenom.

I had tried 2 months ago to do exactly that, but the trunk version, at that time, errored out continually on pxe image boot. At that time, you and your team were working on a fix, but I reformatted the server back to the previously stated conditions.

[Mastriani]

@Wayne-Workman

Thank you sir, I will see if I have a laptop available and answer back when that is confirmed. The one I typically use is Win 10, and carries too much information/applications to be reformatted.

My Linux/Ubuntu capabilities are intermediate, I have never used a live disk or utilities for network troubleshooting, for my ignorance, I might require more information on how this handled.

[Mastriani]

@george1421

All machines that we use are Dell refurbs, ranging from OptiPlex 755 up to Dell 390 with Win 10.

All images at this point are Win 7, 35 - 55Gb. After researching through community commentary, I changed compression to 5, as most reported this setting maximized throughput in their experience. Previously tried compression 3 and 9, but in the overall, no observable change in capture time frame.

[george1421]

@Mastriani Well the 755 to 390s are not the most powerful systems but they should not take 30 minutes to image either.

When you run you test, please try to get an accurate time to deploy and the actual image size. That way we can calculate the true throughput. The number from part clone is a bit deceiving.

The compression value is a scale from 0 (no compression) to 9 (maximum compression). That also means:
0 = maximum file size on the FOG server and over the network but images faster since the client doesn’t need to decompress the image.
9 = smaller file size on the FOG server and network but images slower since the client must squeeze all of the air possible out of the image to capture and deploy it.

5 is a middle of the road between larger file and higher cpu requirements on the client.

[Mastriani]

@george1421

I have Fog servers at both buildings, suffering the same issues. I will connect as you specified first thing in the morning, and let the capture run.

Easy enough to get the data you require, I will post that whenever the test completes.

Greatly appreciate the input, loss of imaging capability has made this school year … frustrating and inefficient.

[Tom Elliott]

Just shedding light that udp, unless using multicast, is limited only to tftp traffic and even then is minimal at best

[george1421]

@Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

I have Fog servers at both buildings, suffering the same issues. I will connect as you specified first thing in the morning, and let the capture run.

This is an interesting puzzle here. You should not have this issue (which you know all ready). When I run into this puzzles I remember what one of my university professors told me when debugging an electrical circuit. “You have first find out where the problem isn’t to find out where the problem is” So you start where the problem should be and then work your way away from where the problem isn’t to where it is. So far his statement has worked for me well.

[Mastriani]

@Tom-Elliott said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

Just shedding light that udp, unless using multicast, is limited only to tftp traffic and even then is minimal at best

Is there something else then, in the protocol stack, that should be looked at more closely? The switches currently have igmp snooping disabled, by factory default.

[Mastriani]

@george1421 said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

This is an interesting puzzle here. You should not have this issue (which you know all ready). When I run into this puzzles I remember what one of my university professors told me when debugging an electrical circuit. “You have first find out where the problem isn’t to find out where the problem is” So you start where the problem should be and then work your way away from where the problem isn’t to where it is. So far his statement has worked for me well.

If you have a better approach, then I am all … well, reading glasses, as it were. Resolution is what is most important. Hopefully I can also make use of Mr. Workman’s talents as well, and grab a few new neuronal connections in the process.

[george1421]

@Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

Is there something else then, in the protocol stack, that should be looked at more closely? The switches currently have igmp snooping disabled, by factory default.

igmp snooping is only used if you are using multicasting. We are only talking about unicast image deployment, Right?

[Mastriani]

@george1421 said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

igmp snooping is only used if you are using multicasting. We are only talking about unicast image deployment, Right?

Yes, unicast only, the IGMP comment was just for reference. I am attempting to be as inclusive as possible with anything that your team might deem relevant, or not and helping to refine the possible scope.

[Wayne Workman]

@Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

the one I typically use is Win 10, and carries too much information/applications to be reformatted.

There is no need to reformat. You can use a Live Linux disk, meaning you boot from a CD or USB drive, and run the OS completely from that, without ever changing the contents of your local HDD. See this for more information: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

Now a days I default to using Linux to solve any sort of problem that isn’t specifically a Windows problem, just because I’ve become so accustomed to the tools available to Linux. If you’re into high quality Information Technology / Computer Science software at a low price, Linux is the literal jackpot.

[Mastriani]

@Wayne-Workman said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

There is no need to reformat. You can use a Live Linux disk, meaning you boot from a CD or USB drive, and run the OS completely from that, without ever changing the contents of your local HDD. See this for more information: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

Now a days I default to using Linux to solve any sort of problem that isn’t specifically a Windows problem, just because I’ve become so accustomed to the tools available to Linux. If you’re into high quality Information Technology / Computer Science software at a low price, Linux IS the literal jackpot.

Thank you Mr. Workman, understood. I will burn a disc in the morning. Because of my ignorance, how then do I “install” iperf and ethtool functionally, or is this all accomplished via virtual environment? Yes, my moron is showing currently.

[Wayne Workman]

@Mastriani Stop down-talking yourself.

apt-get install iperf ethtool -y

apt-get is Ubuntu’s preferred package manager. There is also apt and dpkg

install is one of many commands to do. There is also remove and others.

iperf and ethtool are package names.

-y means do whatever needs done to just install it and don’t ask for permission, this is my permission here.

Fedora 24’s package manager is dnf but the rest is the same. In CentOS 7, it’s yum. In Arch Linux, it’s pacman

[Mastriani]

@Wayne-Workman said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

@Mastriani Stop down-talking yourself.

apt-get install iperf ethtool -y

apt-get is Ubuntu’s preferred package manager. There is also apt and dpkg

install is one of many commands to do. There is also remove and others.

iperf and ethtool are package names.

-y means do whatever needs done to just install it and don’t ask for permission, this is my permission here.

Fedora 24’s package manager is dnf but the rest is the same. In CentOS 7, it’s yum. In Arch Linux, it’s pacman

Objectively, better down than up, and this is 3 years of frustration speaking, having attempted to learn and resolve this solo. I will post back when the necessary conditions have been met. Thank you.

[Tom Elliott]

@Mastriani The UDP issues might have come up due to 0.29. The NFS mount was not using the TCP proto (of which it does now).

[Wayne Workman]

I’ll also be looking at some of the same stuff that George already touched on. And I’ll of course be using the same “near to far” thing he was talking about, this is just how to properly troubleshoot.

[Mastriani]

@Tom-Elliott said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

@Mastriani The UDP issues might have come up due to 0.29. The NFS mount was not using the TCP proto (of which it does now).

The current servers are clean install of FOG 1.0.2 / Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, because other members of the team had targeted the old server as being the issue, as opposed to the change-over of network hardware. It was a post hoc ergo propter hock situation, having also migrated from FOG .32 / Ubuntu 10.04 to FOG 1.0.1 / Ubuntu 12.04. This was done during the network hardware change-over.

I doubted the correlation as causation, the only issue with 12.04, (appears to be fairly common), was installing the Unity desktop environment. Which was later removed and replaced with LXDE, preferable to my mind.

[Mastriani]

@Wayne-Workman said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

I’ll also be looking at some of the same stuff that George already touched on. And I’ll of course be using the same “near to far” thing he was talking about, this is just how to properly troubleshoot.

I will most certainly appreciate the learning process and your time.

[Mastriani]

@george1421 said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

@Mastriani Well the 755 to 390s are not the most powerful systems but they should not take 30 minutes to image either.

When you run you test, please try to get an accurate time to deploy and the actual image size. That way we can calculate the true throughput. The number from part clone is a bit deceiving.

The compression value is a scale from 0 (no compression) to 9 (maximum compression). That also means:
0 = maximum file size on the FOG server and over the network but images faster since the client doesn’t need to decompress the image.
9 = smaller file size on the FOG server and network but images slower since the client must squeeze all of the air possible out of the image to capture and deploy it.

5 is a middle of the road between larger file and higher cpu requirements on the client.

FOG server and client machine on same switch. Image capture started at 10:28 a.m. EDT
Dell OptiPlex 780
Dual Core
4Gb PC3 DDR RAM
GbE Broadcom NIC, 1 Gb/s as per device manager
34.3 Gb image
Started: 2.8 Gb/s, 10 mins. into capture, speed degraded to 1 Gb/s, 11%, if the partclone measurement is believable.
20 mins, 620Mb/s, 18%
30 mins, 450Mb/s, 39%
40 mins, 395Mb/s, 49%
50 mins, 325Mb/s, 57%
60 mins, 315Mb/s, 61%
70 mins, 295Mb/s, 65%
80 mins, 272Mb/s, 69%
90 mins, 261Mb/s, 72%
100 mins, 250Mb/s, 77%
110 mins, 237Mb/s, 81%
120 mins, 223Mb/s, 88%
130 mins, 215Mb/s, 93%
140 mins, 222Mb/s, 97%
148 mins, 209Mb/s, 100%
Total time: 2 hr, 31 mins, 34.3 Gbs transferred, 12:59 p.m. EDT