Debian 8 tutorial

[Wayne Workman]

Working on putting together a Debian 8 tutorial - because it deserves one - and because I want people to choose Debian over Ubuntu.

Incomplete, but here’s the link: https://wiki.fogproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Debian_8

[Jaymes Driver]

@Wayne-Workman Don’t like Ubuntu?

[THEMCV]

@Jaymes-Driver At least for me, Debian is much more problem free for FOG than Ubuntu.

AFAIK Debian doesn’t need any tweaks for FOG out of box even.

[Jaymes Driver]

@THEMCV What tweaks are you referring to?

I download Ubuntu, apt-get install git, clone the git run the installation and have a FOG server running.

I never have to tweak anything. So I am curious what others are seeing.

I like them both, I have run many web servers on Debian and Ubuntu. Personally I liked Ubuntu better back before they wen all eye candy mode in 12.04. Matter of a fact, that Ubiquity crap pushed me more towards Debian until I discovered the MATE desktop environment version. I have been using the Ubuntu MATE ever sense.

I have no real issues out of the server versions of Ubuntu either. But I don’t test every iteration and in order for someone who is not as use to linux I tend to use the desktop environment so that others can use the box if I happen to move on to better things, kind of as a courtesy.

But nether here nor there. I do think that a Debian Tutorial is in order, I was only poking some fun at Wayne’s expense

[THEMCV]

@Jaymes-Driver I’d have to revisit it because I can’t recall what was up, but I remember Ubuntu was having a few issues for me. Might have only been me, but Debian is my go to for FOG installs anymore.

[Wayne Workman]

@Jaymes-Driver said in Debian 8 tutorial:

I download Ubuntu, apt-get install git, clone the git run the installation and have a FOG server running.

You could setup the partitions, volume groups, and logical volumes so that they are optimized for fog - which will also minimize the risk of a full root volume in the future due to an image capture or snapin upload. I do this with every distribution - Fedora, CentOS, RHEL, Debian, Ubuntu. Well, I tried with Arch during installation and something screwed up with it so I don’t do it for arch at the moment. But it’s a good thing to separate stuff out.

[Jaymes Driver]

@Wayne-Workman Correct, but this isn’t inherently required in order to get a FOG server running. You can take a bare bones Ubuntu installation and have a FOG server running in ~15 minutes depending on your internet connection. The same can be said for all of the OS that we support.

The information I supplied was a very minimal installation to provide information that nothing needs to be done in order to get FOG working on Ubuntu.

Anything else that is done, that is not inherently required by FOG, would be a modification, whether it is recommended or not. Anything that is broken because of this, regardless of the ease of steps, should not deter someone from using Ubuntu for FOG, nor should it be held against the OS or the user as the steps are extraneous.

Now it seems like I am defending Ubuntu here, I am not. I like how easy it is to use, and for a n00b to Linux, it is a good start. However, I agree that a Debian setup is more pure and would have far less issues. We have seen our fair share of ups and downs with the Ubuntu OS and upstart problems.

I look forward to reading your guide and your recommendations for a happy installation on Debian.

[Wayne Workman]

@Jaymes-Driver said in Debian 8 tutorial:

You can take a bare bones Ubuntu installation and have a FOG server running in ~15 minutes depending on your internet connection. The same can be said for all of the OS that we support.

For Fedora and CentOS, SELinux needs set to permissive. On Fedora firewalld is installed and enabled by default, that needs configured.

Telling people to just install Ubuntu and then fog does work exactly like that. But when their root volume gets filled up due to a capture they didn’t have space for, the server will crash. Anything we recommend no mater the distribution - those recommendations should include steps to avoid a full root volume.

[Jaymes Driver]

@Wayne-Workman I’m not disagreeing with you, I am agreeing with you.
Guides should be provided, as well as an explanation as you why, like you have done here.
The more information we can provide the users of FOG the better, filling up the root volume is a common issue that a Linux novice would face, regardless of OS choice. I want to build users up to the point that they learn as well as accomplish their imaging tasks. Guides such as this REALLY help to enlighten our user base!

I am supporting your decision in making the guides, I was merely defending the fact that Ubuntu has issues and needs things done to get the OS ready for FOG as THEMCV had lead to believe in the post under mine. “Posts such as that could easily deter someone from the OS when it would be a better fit for them because they are a novice” is the entire point I was trying to make. That is why I made the defense I did, but still supported your endeavor. Not everyone enjoys the OS, and not everyone will use it. But we still shouldn’t mislead readers into thinking that Ubuntu is a bad OS, has issues, nor should it be avoided. Your personal choice is:
@Wayne-Workman said in Debian 8 tutorial:

Working on putting together a Debian 8 tutorial - because it deserves one - and because I want people to choose Debian over Ubuntu.

I want users to choose the OS that best suits there skill level and needs.

I am sorry for filling up your thread with these posts, I will not post in it anymore as I have said my piece. It was originally to poke a little fun and hopefully enlighten users why your choice is Debian over Ubuntu, but I have seemed to have drug the post off topic instead, so I will wait patiently for your guide.

I did not know that about the CentOS and Fedora and SELinux. I don’t have much experience with those systems, so thanks for letting me know that something has to be done other than just “run the installer” on those OS.

[Wayne Workman]

@Jaymes-Driver said in Debian 8 tutorial:

I am sorry for filling up your thread with these posts,

Nah, it’s fine.

I don’t think Ubuntu is a better fit for a novice really, not for use as a production-server. For end-user desktops & laptops yes absolutely I think Ubuntu is stronger there. But when it comes to fixing / manipulating things in the back-end, when it’s time to open the Terminal, a novice would have equal amounts of challenge whether the OS is Ubuntu or something else.

There’s not really a lot of differences between Ubuntu and Debian, and the differences between Ubuntu & something like CentOS are pretty short.

Off the top of my head… and these lists are missing most of the differences I’m sure but…

Ubuntu:
Security - apparmor & iptables.
update configurations - /etc/apt/sources.list
root login via ssh disabled by default inside /etc/ssh/sshd_config
to update - apt-get -y update;apt-get -y dist-upgrade;apt-get -y autoclean;apt-get -y autoremove
apache is called apache2
OS installer forces you to create a non-root user.
Network configuration is in /etc/network/interfaces

CentOS:
Security - firewalld & SELinux & optionally iptables if that’s your thing.
update configurations - /etc/yum.repos.d/
root login via ssh permitted by default inside /etc/ssh/sshd_config
to update - yum -y update;yum clean all
apache is called httpd
OS installer makes configuring non-root users optional.
Network configuration is in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-<interface name>

Similarities:
Both use /etc/ssh/sshd_config
Both use volume groups, logical volumes by default in their respectable installers.
Both have the same apache configuration files, same options available in there.
Both use /var/www/html as their default web root, - only recently.
Both use systemctl - only recently.
Service commands work on both still.
Ubuntu will be adopting firewalld in the future I think.
Both use /home as the user home directory.
Both use /root as the root user’s home directory.
standard linux commands exist on both such as sudo, ssh, mv, cp, rm, ls, crontab, useradd, userdel, realmd, ping, hostname, route, ip, ifconfig, ifdown, ifup, vi, a ton more.

What I’m getting at is - if you know an ounce of Linux - you will be able to work on any distribution without much effort besides some quick google searches to see what it is on this/that. And if you know zero linux you won’t have a easy time no matter the distribution - when it comes time to do work on a server.

End-user non-technical laptop/desktop usage where a person will never open terminal - well this is a different story and Ubuntu would be the best choice here.