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Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related

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  • M
    Mastriani @george1421
    last edited by Mastriani Nov 17, 2016, 1:11 PM Nov 17, 2016, 7:08 PM

    @george1421

    According to just theoretical throughput of the Enterasys switch, yes, all are listed as GbE.

    Yes, I have even moved ports and rechecked, no issue with the FOG server connecting. The server itself is Dell PE 2950 / Dual Quad core / 16 Gb RAM /Broadcom Extreme GbE NIC.

    Yes, there are some other issues. The DNS retardation was cleared up yesterday, I retested this morning; no change in performance outcome. A major issue, (in my thinking at least), is the interface for these switches. Correct me if I am wrong, but FOG utilizes UDP heavily, and as of yet I can find no utility for looking into the protocol stack settings for this hardware.

    Our ISP/Support is ENA, and they have done all they can, even extended past their “contractual” level support, but cannot pinpoint the issue as they can only look inside individual LAN’s on the WAN, not down to device level. There is, from my observations, some issue that is causing chronic IP conflict, no rogue DHCP/DNS servers found, but the tech who installed the switch hardware didn’t seem particularly detail oriented, ie. yesterday I found that jumbo frames/MTU settings were different on every switch in both my buildings, now corrected.

    It looks directly like a switching issue to me, because during the 3.5+ hour capture, you can watch the bandwidth continually degrade, typically starting between 2.4 - 4 Gb/s down to less than 100Mb/s, continual drop off.

    G 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 7:12 PM Reply Quote 0
    • G
      george1421 Moderator @Mastriani
      last edited by george1421 Nov 17, 2016, 1:14 PM Nov 17, 2016, 7:12 PM

      @Mastriani I think then I would do as I mentioned. Put a target computer plugged into the same switch as the FOG server make sure both are on the same VLAN. Test deploy in this configuration.

      The Dell should not have this problem, but I have seen some old computers not properly negotiate with the switch to setup GbE speeds. You should confirm from the switch management interface that the port plugged into the Dell is indeed connecting as GbE.

      How big (in GB) is your image that is being deployed?

      Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!

      M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 7:22 PM Reply Quote 1
      • M
        Mastriani @Tom Elliott
        last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 7:13 PM

        @Tom-Elliott

        Mr. Elliot, you sir are a phenom.

        I had tried 2 months ago to do exactly that, but the trunk version, at that time, errored out continually on pxe image boot. At that time, you and your team were working on a fix, but I reformatted the server back to the previously stated conditions.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • M
          Mastriani @Wayne Workman
          last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 7:16 PM

          @Wayne-Workman

          Thank you sir, I will see if I have a laptop available and answer back when that is confirmed. The one I typically use is Win 10, and carries too much information/applications to be reformatted.

          My Linux/Ubuntu capabilities are intermediate, I have never used a live disk or utilities for network troubleshooting, for my ignorance, I might require more information on how this handled.

          W 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:09 PM Reply Quote 0
          • M
            Mastriani @george1421
            last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 7:22 PM

            @george1421

            All machines that we use are Dell refurbs, ranging from OptiPlex 755 up to Dell 390 with Win 10.

            All images at this point are Win 7, 35 - 55Gb. After researching through community commentary, I changed compression to 5, as most reported this setting maximized throughput in their experience. Previously tried compression 3 and 9, but in the overall, no observable change in capture time frame.

            G 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 7:31 PM Reply Quote 0
            • G
              george1421 Moderator @Mastriani
              last edited by george1421 Nov 17, 2016, 1:32 PM Nov 17, 2016, 7:31 PM

              @Mastriani Well the 755 to 390s are not the most powerful systems but they should not take 30 minutes to image either.

              When you run you test, please try to get an accurate time to deploy and the actual image size. That way we can calculate the true throughput. The number from part clone is a bit deceiving.

              The compression value is a scale from 0 (no compression) to 9 (maximum compression). That also means:
              0 = maximum file size on the FOG server and over the network but images faster since the client doesn’t need to decompress the image.
              9 = smaller file size on the FOG server and network but images slower since the client must squeeze all of the air possible out of the image to capture and deploy it.

              5 is a middle of the road between larger file and higher cpu requirements on the client.

              Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!

              M 2 Replies Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 7:35 PM Reply Quote 1
              • M
                Mastriani @george1421
                last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 7:35 PM

                @george1421

                I have Fog servers at both buildings, suffering the same issues. I will connect as you specified first thing in the morning, and let the capture run.

                Easy enough to get the data you require, I will post that whenever the test completes.

                Greatly appreciate the input, loss of imaging capability has made this school year … frustrating and inefficient.

                G 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 8:19 PM Reply Quote 0
                • T
                  Tom Elliott
                  last edited by Tom Elliott Nov 17, 2016, 1:54 PM Nov 17, 2016, 7:54 PM

                  Just shedding light that udp, unless using multicast, is limited only to tftp traffic and even then is minimal at best

                  Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG! Get in contact with me (chat bubble in the top right corner) if you want to join in.

                  Web GUI issue? Please check apache error (debian/ubuntu: /var/log/apache2/error.log, centos/fedora/rhel: /var/log/httpd/error_log) and php-fpm log (/var/log/php*-fpm.log)

                  Please support FOG if you like it: https://wiki.fogproject.org/wiki/index.php/Support_FOG

                  M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 10:38 PM Reply Quote 1
                  • G
                    george1421 Moderator @Mastriani
                    last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 8:19 PM

                    @Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                    I have Fog servers at both buildings, suffering the same issues. I will connect as you specified first thing in the morning, and let the capture run.

                    This is an interesting puzzle here. You should not have this issue (which you know all ready). When I run into this puzzles I remember what one of my university professors told me when debugging an electrical circuit. “You have first find out where the problem isn’t to find out where the problem is” So you start where the problem should be and then work your way away from where the problem isn’t to where it is. So far his statement has worked for me well.

                    Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!

                    M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 10:42 PM Reply Quote 0
                    • M
                      Mastriani @Tom Elliott
                      last edited by Mastriani Nov 17, 2016, 4:43 PM Nov 17, 2016, 10:38 PM

                      @Tom-Elliott said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                      Just shedding light that udp, unless using multicast, is limited only to tftp traffic and even then is minimal at best

                      Is there something else then, in the protocol stack, that should be looked at more closely? The switches currently have igmp snooping disabled, by factory default.

                      G 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 10:47 PM Reply Quote 0
                      • M
                        Mastriani @george1421
                        last edited by Mastriani Nov 17, 2016, 4:42 PM Nov 17, 2016, 10:42 PM

                        @george1421 said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                        This is an interesting puzzle here. You should not have this issue (which you know all ready). When I run into this puzzles I remember what one of my university professors told me when debugging an electrical circuit. “You have first find out where the problem isn’t to find out where the problem is” So you start where the problem should be and then work your way away from where the problem isn’t to where it is. So far his statement has worked for me well.

                        If you have a better approach, then I am all … well, reading glasses, as it were. Resolution is what is most important. Hopefully I can also make use of Mr. Workman’s talents as well, and grab a few new neuronal connections in the process.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • G
                          george1421 Moderator @Mastriani
                          last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 10:47 PM

                          @Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                          Is there something else then, in the protocol stack, that should be looked at more closely? The switches currently have igmp snooping disabled, by factory default.

                          igmp snooping is only used if you are using multicasting. We are only talking about unicast image deployment, Right?

                          Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!

                          M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 10:49 PM Reply Quote 1
                          • M
                            Mastriani @george1421
                            last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 10:49 PM

                            @george1421 said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                            igmp snooping is only used if you are using multicasting. We are only talking about unicast image deployment, Right?

                            Yes, unicast only, the IGMP comment was just for reference. I am attempting to be as inclusive as possible with anything that your team might deem relevant, or not and helping to refine the possible scope.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • W
                              Wayne Workman @Mastriani
                              last edited by Wayne Workman Nov 17, 2016, 5:13 PM Nov 17, 2016, 11:09 PM

                              @Mastriani said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                              the one I typically use is Win 10, and carries too much information/applications to be reformatted.

                              There is no need to reformat. You can use a Live Linux disk, meaning you boot from a CD or USB drive, and run the OS completely from that, without ever changing the contents of your local HDD. See this for more information: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

                              Now a days I default to using Linux to solve any sort of problem that isn’t specifically a Windows problem, just because I’ve become so accustomed to the tools available to Linux. If you’re into high quality Information Technology / Computer Science software at a low price, Linux is the literal jackpot.

                              Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!
                              Daily Clean Installation Results:
                              https://fogtesting.fogproject.us/
                              FOG Reporting:
                              https://fog-external-reporting-results.fogproject.us/

                              M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:14 PM Reply Quote 0
                              • M
                                Mastriani @Wayne Workman
                                last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 11:14 PM

                                @Wayne-Workman said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                                There is no need to reformat. You can use a Live Linux disk, meaning you boot from a CD or USB drive, and run the OS completely from that, without ever changing the contents of your local HDD. See this for more information: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

                                Now a days I default to using Linux to solve any sort of problem that isn’t specifically a Windows problem, just because I’ve become so accustomed to the tools available to Linux. If you’re into high quality Information Technology / Computer Science software at a low price, Linux IS the literal jackpot.

                                Thank you Mr. Workman, understood. I will burn a disc in the morning. Because of my ignorance, how then do I “install” iperf and ethtool functionally, or is this all accomplished via virtual environment? Yes, my moron is showing currently.

                                W 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:18 PM Reply Quote 0
                                • W
                                  Wayne Workman @Mastriani
                                  last edited by Wayne Workman Nov 17, 2016, 5:19 PM Nov 17, 2016, 11:18 PM

                                  @Mastriani Stop down-talking yourself.

                                  apt-get install iperf ethtool -y

                                  apt-get is Ubuntu’s preferred package manager. There is also apt and dpkg

                                  install is one of many commands to do. There is also remove and others.

                                  iperf and ethtool are package names.

                                  -y means do whatever needs done to just install it and don’t ask for permission, this is my permission here.

                                  Fedora 24’s package manager is dnf but the rest is the same. In CentOS 7, it’s yum. In Arch Linux, it’s pacman

                                  Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!
                                  Daily Clean Installation Results:
                                  https://fogtesting.fogproject.us/
                                  FOG Reporting:
                                  https://fog-external-reporting-results.fogproject.us/

                                  M 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:22 PM Reply Quote 0
                                  • M
                                    Mastriani @Wayne Workman
                                    last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 11:22 PM

                                    @Wayne-Workman said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                                    @Mastriani Stop down-talking yourself.

                                    apt-get install iperf ethtool -y

                                    apt-get is Ubuntu’s preferred package manager. There is also apt and dpkg

                                    install is one of many commands to do. There is also remove and others.

                                    iperf and ethtool are package names.

                                    -y means do whatever needs done to just install it and don’t ask for permission, this is my permission here.

                                    Fedora 24’s package manager is dnf but the rest is the same. In CentOS 7, it’s yum. In Arch Linux, it’s pacman

                                    Objectively, better down than up, and this is 3 years of frustration speaking, having attempted to learn and resolve this solo. I will post back when the necessary conditions have been met. Thank you.

                                    T 1 Reply Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:26 PM Reply Quote 0
                                    • T
                                      Tom Elliott @Mastriani
                                      last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 11:26 PM

                                      @Mastriani The UDP issues might have come up due to 0.29. The NFS mount was not using the TCP proto (of which it does now).

                                      Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG! Get in contact with me (chat bubble in the top right corner) if you want to join in.

                                      Web GUI issue? Please check apache error (debian/ubuntu: /var/log/apache2/error.log, centos/fedora/rhel: /var/log/httpd/error_log) and php-fpm log (/var/log/php*-fpm.log)

                                      Please support FOG if you like it: https://wiki.fogproject.org/wiki/index.php/Support_FOG

                                      M 2 Replies Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:45 PM Reply Quote 1
                                      • W
                                        Wayne Workman
                                        last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 11:26 PM

                                        I’ll also be looking at some of the same stuff that George already touched on. And I’ll of course be using the same “near to far” thing he was talking about, this is just how to properly troubleshoot.

                                        Please help us build the FOG community with everyone involved. It's not just about coding - way more we need people to test things, update documentation and most importantly work on uniting the community of people enjoying and working on FOG!
                                        Daily Clean Installation Results:
                                        https://fogtesting.fogproject.us/
                                        FOG Reporting:
                                        https://fog-external-reporting-results.fogproject.us/

                                        M 2 Replies Last reply Nov 17, 2016, 11:47 PM Reply Quote 0
                                        • M
                                          Mastriani @Tom Elliott
                                          last edited by Nov 17, 2016, 11:45 PM

                                          @Tom-Elliott said in Using dumb switch to troubleshoot imaging, network related:

                                          @Mastriani The UDP issues might have come up due to 0.29. The NFS mount was not using the TCP proto (of which it does now).

                                          The current servers are clean install of FOG 1.0.2 / Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, because other members of the team had targeted the old server as being the issue, as opposed to the change-over of network hardware. It was a post hoc ergo propter hock situation, having also migrated from FOG .32 / Ubuntu 10.04 to FOG 1.0.1 / Ubuntu 12.04. This was done during the network hardware change-over.

                                          I doubted the correlation as causation, the only issue with 12.04, (appears to be fairly common), was installing the Unity desktop environment. Which was later removed and replaced with LXDE, preferable to my mind.

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