FOG Status
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There’s nothing that fog does that powershell remoting can’t do better when you consider a windows 7+s2008 with winRM installed at a minimum environment. Bonus is security is already done for that. Not having a client application in my opinion is a big win, makes new deployments that bit more friendlier. Using powershell should really be sysadmin 101 and is looking to go more that way every day.
Looking at the wikis for nfs, samba and ftp it strikes me that the problem we have with NFS is that we aren’t using enough of it. Theres all kinds of authentication and multi server load balancing and redundancy etc. we aren’t using. There’s a heck of a lot being added to SMB in the windows world with s2012 and 12r2 is there anything there to look into? Booting multiple machines off a single shared vhdx image file I think is pretty new for 2012 R2.
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Best thing about Linux is price to performance. No UI means better performance. Webmin if you need it. Free OS, Free tools, Free database. No expensive OS requiring CAL’s with a DBMS requiring CAL’s with a management tool that has to be purchased on top of that. Plus, I’ve used microsoft’s management tools in the past, they market great, and fail to deliver on their promises without weeks of training and years of experience and a support contract so you can call them when you just can’t figure things out.
FOG needs to stay accessible to the masses that have little to no budget for imaging. If we can make headway into the market where people have million dollar budgets, that’s an added bonus.
And there is no enterprise support team for FOG.
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An another note, I would like to stay with php because the developer base is there already. I would prefer however if the FOG web UI was a templated system with caching, rather than a mixed code/presentation system.
I’ve worked with a few php based systems that have great templating/caching setups that make it really easy to make logic/process changes without affecting the UI, and vice vera.
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[FONT=Tahoma]First I want to say thank you to everyone who has helped to create and develop FOG. I consider adding FOG to our network as one of the top, if not the top changes we have ever made. We have used PTMagic, Ghost, and ZENWorks in the past, but none of them have been as fast, user friendly, and stable as FOG.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Tahoma]Working for a school district with budget cuts at every turn and a do more with less feeling for support gets difficult at times. FOG has filled several holes for us. While our primary use of FOG is imaging of our desktops and our primary inventory source the “other” tasks such as password recovery, disk scanning, memory testing, hostname change (very much so), and even the AV have been very helpful! While we have never gotten to use the snap-ins and printer management I trust others have found them useful.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]I hope for the continuing development of FOG as newer operating systems are released and times change. Thank you again to everyone who helps with development![/FONT]
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[QUOTE]There’s nothing that fog does that powershell remoting can’t do better when you consider a windows 7+s2008 with winRM installed at a minimum environment. Bonus is security is already done for that. Not having a client application in my opinion is a big win, makes new deployments that bit more friendlier. Using powershell should really be sysadmin 101 and is looking to go more that way every day.
[/QUOTE]Careful there, this implies you have a platform to run your powershell thingies, and that you only maintain Windows on the guests…
The reason I use FOG in the first place is to avoid having to maintain Windows Servers for the infrastructure. So FOG does what powershell doesn’t : run an imaging solution based on opensource components. I’m really happy for MS customers that they have those shiny setups included, but it doesn’t make FOG any less relevant. -
[quote=“The Dealman, post: 13190, member: 53”][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=4][FONT=Arial] a nice to have item for me would be a better way to do snap-ins. If i had that it would reduce the size of images by far ![/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/quote]
I’m not really sure I understand this.
Snapins work flawlessly for me. They are without doubt one of the best features of FOG in my opinion. If there was a seperate distrubtion where all it did was deploy snapins to clients I would be happy.
Can you explain what you mean by ‘better way’?
Because ALL of our software is deployed by snapins. Our windows 7 SOE is around 12GB that includes all driver packs.
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I totally agree with Gilou and Tom Elliot. If you went to the hassle of developing FOG to run off windows server I wouldn’t bother with it. I think one of the reasons it works so well is because it runs on linux, FOG is without doubt the most reliable server we have out of around 100 servers.
IMO FOG doesn’t need a ground up rewrite. FOG does everything so well. There are many additional features like the AV which we don’t use at all, however the main functions are perfect, deploying images and deploying snapins. That’s the core of FOG and it does it well running on linux servers. The web interface is fine IMO. The main thing I think FOG needs is EFI GPT support.
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I agree to that, Andy. My FOG server and Unix storage server have around 180 days of uptime in production. If I don’t power cycle the Windows servers once a week or so they start to get stale.
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FOG is arguably the best application in the known world and I am deeply interested in its future. The creators and developers of this amazing piece of software are truly living geniuses, gods among men, and I am eternally grateful for their work.
Since the only constant is change, I would like to just throw a few things out there as a FOG user…
I have had great success with the FOG service and I actually really like that integration; that being said I know that it is hard to develop and maintain. I have never really used:
Auto Log Out
Directory Cleaner
Display Manager
Green FOG
User Tracker
User CleanupBut please, oh please keep the Hostname Changer and Host Register with the AD integration (they have continued to work well for me in Windows 7, x86 and x64 - Windows 8 worries me regarding this, but hey, it is NT 6.2, right?) I could live without the FOG tray, but the FOG service with those two features along with Task Reboot and Snap-ins would be so, so nice to still have because it makes FOG a complete imaging, auto-naming, program-deploying solution and I have never, ever seen any other application that does this so elegantly and so well - not by a long shot. I also really like the ability to load all those tests from the web UI. I’ve had varying degrees of success with most, but consider memtest almost essential for field testing. I know that a lot of these things can be loaded up over USB or other ways, but FOG’s integrated delivery is just so much better.
I will also throw my hat in the ring on the NFS share issue - we have backups but this hurts the enterprise “strength” of the system simply because people worry about stuff, often unnecessarily. I would also like to see some kind of automated or scripted way of managing the SQL database password for the same reason.
I also like the Linux/Debian/Ubuntu environment for all the reasons others have mentioned, and don’t much see the point of having the core application running on another platform. To me, that is what the web UI, SSL, and RD are for.
Lastly, I am part of the crowd that has yet to face UEFI/GPT in a large way, but I know that it is coming, soon; I agree that this is probably the biggest single issue on the horizon and it does apply to me too.
Beyond that, I honestly think that FOG is nothing short of a godsend, and seeing it in action and how well it works truly amazes me on an almost daily basis, so it is funny to me to hear the “lipstick on a pig” analogy applied to something so amazing!
Thank you again, thank you so much,
D.L. -
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[quote=“andyroo54, post: 17752, member: 267”]I’m not really sure I understand this.
Snapins work flawlessly for me. They are without doubt one of the best features of FOG in my opinion. If there was a seperate distrubtion where all it did was deploy snapins to clients I would be happy.
Can you explain what you mean by ‘better way’?
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The deployment method is fine my comment is geared towards the encapsulation apps e.g (InstallRite & SFXMaker)
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[quote=“The Dealman, post: 17970, member: 53”]The deployment method is fine my comment is geared towards the encapsulation apps e.g (InstallRite & SFXMaker)[/quote]
I use SFX maker and have no problems with it, it is not related to FOG though?
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[quote=“andyroo54, post: 18001, member: 267”]I use SFX maker and have no problems with it, it is not related to FOG though?[/quote]
what’s the largest snap-in you have deployed?
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[quote=“The Dealman, post: 18013, member: 53”]what’s the largest snap-in you have deployed?[/quote]
Office 2010 it’s about 1GB
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My 2 cents.
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[]Could FOG become its own distribution? Maybe even a TurnKey Linux patch or similar to ease packaging
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[]Could ease compatibility, as everything is tested together before shipped as an ISO or VM image
[]being based on a modern Ubuntu LTS means better hardware compatibility for Bare metal install’s (who does this nowadays?)
[]Don’t think installing on windows is a good idea at all personally, I have always treated FOG like an appliance, it just works!
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[]Without starting a programming language flame war
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[]As for changing over from PHP I personally agree with this, although there are a lot of PHP dev’s out there, I would choose a more popular language though. I find Python (Django) really easy to work with and might make for quicker dev time
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[]UEFI
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[]I know its tricky, particular to get secure boot working, unfortunately I can’t help with this one
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[]As for all the extras like password reset etc
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[]Get rid of them. Because FOG includes a PXE server its very easy to use Memdisk to boot any ISO you want, so no need to Integrate that extra work into the FOG kernel, let 3rd party apps do it, I have a PXE menu of over 100 ISO tools atm
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[]I would love to see improvements in FOG’s scale ability
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[]Multi-Site improvements and site replication built in with no mods
[]Make it modular in Roles, when you do the install you choose what you want on that server, small sites deploy one single server all roles, large sites scale as they see fit
[]Option to Split Snap-In deployment separate from Image deployment in the roles
[]some form of load balancing / HA , like DNS SRV or Round Robin - easier than clustering
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[]KISS approach
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[]let FOG focus on what its great at, Image and Snap-In deployment leave the rest for 3rd party tools
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[]Commercial Support
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[*]might be dreaming, but I know that we rely on FOG so much that having support would be great, and ease managements mind on how much we rely on this thing. haven’t installed windows manually for years!
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[quote=“StylusPilot, post: 18228, member: 441”]My 2 cents.
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[*]Could FOG become its own distribution? Maybe even a TurnKey Linux patch or similar to ease packaging[/LIST][/quote][LIST]
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I love this idea, and agree with all of your points.I love the idea of a Fog distro.
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[quote=“Gilou, post: 15665, member: 3221”]
You are saying the dependency on NFS, TFTP & ISC DHCP is an issue. It is not. Those tools work, they work fine, and FOG is an important part of a network infrastructure, so considering running it on Linux because it uses some of the usual linux toolset is reasonnable.
[/quote]Absolutely right. Considering the project ist struggeling having not enough time for development, so don’t kill the things that really are working and get maintained for you. Use the tools which do work since years and use more of them (-> packaging, dependencies and all the beauty of dpkg) like this you get your hands free for the actual job FOG must do.
Don’t invent the wheel again, go rolling with the wheels you have! -
[quote=“andyroo54, post: 18229, member: 267”][LIST]
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I love this idea, and agree with all of your points.I love the idea of a Fog distro.[/quote]
I will love to have another server with another distro I have to learn again. And I am sure it will save a lot of time to the FOG developpers… No sorry, wrong way.
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I wasn’t referring to starting from scratch and creating an entire OS eg Ubuntu or over complicating in that manner.
Using something like TKL or others as a base would ease compatibility and includes both deployment options (ISO and VM Appliance), rather than having to test and get FOG to work on SUSE, Ubuntu, CentOS etc
standardize on one base, and ship it as a complete ISO or VM app
or take the approach from other embedded distro’s like FreeNAS or pfSense choose one underlying rock solid base (FreeBSD) and allow easy upgrades including the entire OS via the web UI. This option would also make it easier for commercial support, as its one OS under the hood to support.
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[quote=“StylusPilot, post: 18377, member: 441”]
or take the approach from other embedded distro’s like FreeNAS or pfSense choose one underlying rock solid base (FreeBSD) and allow easy upgrades including the entire OS via the web UI.[/quote]
That still implies running an dedicated server for FOG. FOG is just some software that needs to be packed for the some of the ditros out there and that flaky installer dropped. Concentrate on the core business, please. -
[quote=“Adrian Zaugg, post: 18233, member: 3427”]I will love to have another server with another distro I have to learn again. And I am sure it will save a lot of time to the FOG developpers… No sorry, wrong way.[/quote]
Im prolly missing what you all mean by distro, but I am reading this as:
the FoG team pre-package a running fog install on Ubuntu 13.10 (or watever).OPTION 1
I download the new FoGuntu (FuBuntu, FogBuntu etc etc) as an ISO.
Install FogTu on new PC.
During install, fog asks a few questions (IP address, pretty much the current questions)
BAM. You have a running Ubuntu distro with Fog running.OPTION 2
Download an appliance. (An already sorted VM of the above.)Adrian Zaugg if youre already using Ubuntu, you wont need to “learn” anything else.
Or have I misread this?
The words “wrong way” are probably not the most accurate choice, as there isnt a wrong or right way for anyone do anything in these areas. Id say the Fog Devs can do what they want, and if we like it, we will use it…one man’s “right” way is another man’s taboo.
Its good you have strong opinions tho, keep up the active participation!
